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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2010 : 11:38:12
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One of my other addictions, besides classic MB's is woodworking. For the last 6 or so years, I've rented a space near my home to house my considerable collection of tools and sawdust. I have a usable dimension of 17' x 40' (5.2 x 12.3m), into which I stuff a complete woodshop, including dust collection and a walk-in finishing booth (more like a room). The space is 18' (5.5m) at the peak and 14' (4.3m)at the eaves. I've got two lofts built into the space at each end, one 12' (3.7m) deep and the other 6' (1.8m) deep.
The space was originally used to power wash heavy construction equipment, so it has a sloping concrete floor to a center drain. Obviously this wouldn't work for a woodshop, so I solved the problem by building a floor into the space. This had several advantages - mainly allowing me to run electrics for equipment under the floor, and keeping my back and knees happy by not standing on a hard concrete slab for hours on end. Initially, I had plans to store an old '66 Cadillac which I was restoring in the space, and 5,000# cars and elevated wood floors generally don't mix. I solved this problem by building solid blocking into the framework, right up to the bottom of the plywood decking. Two 1' wide "strips" at the same width apart as the chassis track of the car. I recently housed 6.9 #1164 there for about 3 months while it was parted out, and when it left, there was no evidence the car had ever been there, save for the huge pile of spare parts.
Anyway - I need more space, both for 6.9 restoration work and other car hobbies, along with more space to properly arrange the workshop. I've found a larger space a bit farther from home, for less $ every month. It needs lots of improvements, but it will serve nicely once done. The space is 25' x 50' (7.7 x 15.4m) with 18' (5.5m) headroom at the back and 14' (4.3m) at the front. This will allow a larger, more usable loft at the back, which is essentially the roof of the finishing room. The loft will be 16' x 25' (4.9m x 7.7m), and at the leading edge there should be in excess of 6' headroom, while still allowing for a 9' (2.7m) ceiling in the finishing room.
I'm building a floor into this one as well, even though it is a flat slab, much for the same reasons as before. The wider space will allow a 6.9 or similarly sized car to be pulled in and all 4 doors opened without the need to squeeze by on any side or end. This was not the case in the old space. I also plan to run dust collection under the floor, where in the previous space it was above and exposed. I ran it exposed before out of fear of a clogging problem, which never occurred. It will be nice to not have all the piping exposed - fewer horizontal surfaces in a dusty environment like a woodshop is a very good thing.
I'm also going to have additonal space for a proper bead-blasting booth, and the finishing room can serve double-duty for my powder-coating setup.
My big wish is to have the space conditioned. I was able to heat my previous space with a "salamander" heater that runs on Kerosene, but that puppy is loud, and Kerosene is $6+ per gallon now. It was around $1/gallon when I got the heater 5 years ago. A/C is also a plus, as it helps with humidity control which is an issue here on the gulf coast. Even tools properly cleaned and stored develop a patina of rust after sitting for a while. I've got a line on a nearly new HVAC unit which was installed in a friend's house down on the shore which was heavily damaged by Hurricane Ike. He says the house stayed enclosed during the storm, but the water action undermined the stability of the structure to the point where he's going to have to demolish the house and start again, and I can get the HVAC stuff.
There won't be any space for a lift, but my new landlord owns a auto-repair shop that occupies the rest of the building, and there are lifts galore there for me when I need one.
We started last weekend cleaning out the old shop, and 6+ years of accumulation is a sorry sight to behold. I've got use of a 10' x 30' building to store stuff in until I can get the new space built out, and with about 40% of the contents of the shop removed, the storage building is 90% full... I compare this process to moving one's home, except adding the additonal requirement to disassemble the home as part of the move...
Should anyone be interested, I'll be posting a few pictures as the build process begins in February.
Wish me luck...
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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Ron B
Australia
7918 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 16:16:53
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I am totally envious. The problem we face here in OZ is rampant greed from landlords keen to become billionaires so affordable workshop space like that no longer exists.
With the price of fuel being allowed to skyrocket by a weak government ,the prospect o moving to a rural location is also out.
Another scary thought is being fueled by whispers that the Queensland state government is secretly organizing the sale of our Water utility . This being supported by the fact that the government has formed a new water billing company (the first steps towards privatization are always splitting off various departments to make quango companies) . This water billing company has already been on the news here twice in the last couple of days for overcharging water bills. My own bill jumped from a high 400 liter usage to 1400 liter PER DAY according to this water billing company. My landlord is less than impressed and is accusing me of water wastage and insists I pay the bill or move out. I can't move to a better building because the cost involved is too high so I am forced to put up with this nonsense.
 quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member
What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 07:32:47
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It does indeed suck when you get caught like that. I am not happy about leaving my current location, and would not if it weren't for the economics involved. I've had the consumate landlord, and by being so, he made my stay enjoyable. Being that it is a space to feed my need to turn good wood into useless sawdust while hopefully releasing something of use out of what doesn't become dust, paying $ every month whether or not I actually use the space would be highly irritating if I had a testy landlord. With the upswing in my hobby of 6.9's, there were literally months in the last year where the only reason I went to the shop is to drop off the rent money. If the landlord was an ass, I'd have moved out ages ago.
I was paying $.50 sq/ft for rent, I'll now be paying $.29.
The money being spent to finance the move are growing by the day. The existing space had adequate lighting, the new space has none. I was still facing the need to increase the lighting in the existing space, as my nearly half-century-old eyes struggle more and more to work properly in less-than-daylight conditions. It is said that a 40-something person needs roughly twice the light of a 30-year old to maintain the same visual acuity. I'm well into the 40-something category...
I'm economizing by putting light exactly where I need it, over the machinery and above the open space where we'll work on the cars. That will reduce the fixture count, but the $ are still high. Once all is said and done, I'll probably pay out $500 just for fixtures and bulbs.
The floor alone is going to run about $1,000, and I expect the balance of the structure to cost an additional $1,000 - $1,500. Wiring, dust collection, compressed air and vacuum piping will push $1,000 again. My net savings in rent totals $2,400 for the 2 years, plus $800 for the 2 free months I'm getting for committing to a 2-year lease = $3,200. This against my current expected outlay of $4000+ is in-the-hole economics. Adding the time value of money since the recoup of costs doesn't come all at once, but over the course of 2 years, and the deal is even more expensive.
The unaccountable costs for doing what I'm doing make up the difference. Finally being able to have a shop where I don't have to move tools around to work on projects. Finally being able to have a shop that's conditionable space. Finally having enough space to work on a car where I don't have to open and close the doors to move around the vehicle.
Plus, my schedule was opening up just a tad... Now I've got more than enough to occupy my time for the next 3 months.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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alabbasi
USA
1823 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 13:13:58
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That's an amazing deal. I pay around 50c/sq ft here in Dallas which I consider as a good deal. It's a steel building with 220v and enough headroom to house a lift. It's not enough though. I've though about moving a little further out and buying a property where I can build my own workshop.
With best regards
Al
1970 Mercedes Benz 280SL California Coupe
1971 Mercedes Benz 250CE (RHD in the UK)
1971 Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3
1973 Mercedes Benz 280CE 4 speed
1973 Mercedes Benz 350SE 4 speed
1977 Mercedes Benz 350SLC
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SLC 5.0
1981 Mercedes Benz 500SLC
1973 GMC LWB Pickup
2006 Adidas Samba
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Ron B
Australia
7918 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 17:55:48
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50 cents per sq foot per annum?
The average asking price here is $180/m per annum. Some of the ;places i looked at were upwards of $200,000 per year rent...
quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member
What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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abl567
Australia
512 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 19:07:17
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They are really high rates, Secondary industrial in Sydney is about $95/sq m, for $180 you get high tech brand new places in prime locations, somehow I can't imagine you moving to Sydney though
From CBRE
Brisbane metropolitan prime warehouse and
distribution centre rents as at December 2009 ranged
from $110/sq m to $140/sq m while secondary rents
ranged from $85/sq m to $120/sq m. Strata unit rents
ranged from $105/sq m to $180/sq m for prime
units. There is little prospect of any rental growth in
the short to medium term. Some areas will likely be
forced to make negative adjustments to net face rents.
300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go... |
Edited by - abl567 on 01/22/2010 19:13:45 |
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alabbasi
USA
1823 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 00:36:16
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Ron , sorry per month. It's about $5.70 sq ft annually.
quote:
Originally posted by Ron B
50 cents per sq foot per annum?
The average asking price here is $180/m per annum. Some of the ;places i looked at were upwards of $200,000 per year rent...
quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member
What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
With best regards
Al
1970 Mercedes Benz 280SL California Coupe
1971 Mercedes Benz 250CE (RHD in the UK)
1971 Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3
1973 Mercedes Benz 280CE 4 speed
1973 Mercedes Benz 350SE 4 speed
1977 Mercedes Benz 350SLC
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SLC 5.0
1981 Mercedes Benz 500SLC
1973 GMC LWB Pickup
2006 Adidas Samba
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Ron B
Australia
7918 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 17:06:41
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CBRE are one of the reasons rents for even the biggest rat hole are so expensive,having convinced buyer/investors that properties were the way to get rich quickly. Investors here believe they must get a 10% per annum return for ten years so if they buy a property for more than it is actually worth ( and most are turning over for prices far in excess of their true value) they are forced to ask insane rents. As a result there are a lot of empty warehouses etc in Brisbane .My personal view is that you are in business to make money for yourself,not the land lord.
Those prices you quote there are very low in comparison to what I have come across. Some rents are so high the adverts state " POA " meaning they are too embarrassed to state what they need to keep their heads above water.
I was hoping we would see a drop in "values" as normally happens in a bubble boom but it hasn't happened yet.
quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member
What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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Edited by - Ron B on 01/23/2010 17:09:11 |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2010 : 14:40:15
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Time for an update...
The old space has been cleared out. I needed additional space to store the contents, as I expected. Fortunately, the landlord has an additional area of about 8x16, and that did the trick.
Of course, I've since needed several items out of each storage spot that has resulted in a fair amount of head-scratching and self abuse for having packed away something that was so obviously high on the needs list for the new space build out.
In the weeks since my first posting, we've also done some wiring in the space, installing 6 new 8-foot flourescent lights suspended to hang about 10' from the finished floor height. These are new high-efficiency T-8 fixtures, using 4 4-foot bulbs per fixture. Cost was ridiculous, but there's no trade-off for good lighting. Right now, we're running the lights with an extension cord to a plug wired into the circuits until we get the rest of the walls constructed.
We also removed a lot of conduit that was left behind from the previous tenant, deactivating and obsoleting several circuits at the breaker panel in the process.
To make this and other upcoming work, we also built a 10' tall x 4' wide x 6' long rolling scaffold. This kind of stuff is available for rent, but for the cost of one week's rental, we have one we can use for future projects. It can be disassembled for storage, when required.
We've also replaced the bottom section of the overhead door, which was in a sorry state, plus all of the rollers and a few hinges. The previous tenant was none to careful with his use of the space. The door was so far out of alignment that one of the hinges rubbed on the track to the point where the swaging that holds the pivot pin in place was ground away, allowing the pin to partially dislodge, further exacerbating the alignment problem. One of the disadvantages of my new landlord is his cheapness. From his perspective, the door could be opened and closed and somewhat secured in a closed position. The fact that you needed to be a power lifter to open it, and a mountain climber weighing at least 200# to close it was of no consequence. Therefore, any expense towards upgrading was out of my pocket. I knew this going in, and negotiated a rental rate that would allow for stuff like this...
On the 15th, we took delivery of a whole bunch of dead trees. The truck that was making the delivery was a large flat-bed affair with an attached "spider" forklift. For the uninformed, this is what I'm talking about (although not the same brand) http://www.atlaspolar.com/material-handling-equipment/moffett-m5-40-3-truck-mounted-forklift.html.
The truck was Mercedes-powered, which made me smile. However, getting the materials into the jobsite was not without some drama. The approach to the property involves a very steep driveway that crests very abruptly - not a good combination for a long-wheelbase dual-tandem axle truck. Worse, there are obstacles in the form of adjacent buildings and a fence at the edge of the property, less than 30 feet from the street. The truck needed to be up in the parking lot where the materials could be safely offloaded. The first attempt up the drive came to naught - as the front axle came across and past the crest of the drive, that caused the rear axle to lift off the ground, and all forward motion stopped. The driver reversed back out on to the street a bit and in the driver equivalent of the proverbial BFH, poured on a LOT more power to start up the slope. He fully crested the drive and managed to stop just inches before running into the fence.... I didn't bother to check how close the low-slung fuel tanks came to scraping the concrete...
Once positioned, he took the first bundle of lumber off, only to discover the width of the material was greater than the width of the gate and the fence taller than the reach of the forks. What commenced was a mechanical ballet where he moved forward and backwards and slowly backed and twisted the load through the gate - very impressive.
We started laying the floor structure out on Monday the 15th. I took Thursday and Friday off last week, and we finally got the structure complete to accept decking, which is now about 33% complete. There's probably a half-day's work remaining on the decking. We worked all day Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This included the construction of the 2x6 floor joists, elevating them onto 1-1/2" thick blocks (to allow the dust collection pipes to pass under the floor) and then shimming and bracing the structure to make it ready for decking. We also constructed a pair of car-paths inside the structure. These paths are 12" wide and are made of 2x12's with solid blocking to transfer the load of the vehicle directly to the concrete slab without adding load to the floor structure. This meant cutting 28 slabs of 2x12x14-1/2" long to fit between the joists which are 16" on center. Add to this an additional 112 2x6 blocks that the 2x12's sit on, each of which was scribed and cut individually to make sure the 2x12 top sits flush with the surrounding floor structure.
We also installed the ducting for the dust collection system, as well as piping for the vacuum. The dust collection work was quick, as the ducts sit between and underneath the joists. The vacuum system required drilling 40 2-1/2" holes through each and every floor joist to allow the pipe to be threaded through. Try as I might, I couldn't figure out a way to route the pipes without this single right-angle run down the length of the shop. I've got a drill and the required bits that are up to the task, it's the drill operator that's ill-equipped. The bit has a threaded spur on the front, and once started, basically pulls itself through the wood - until the spur peeks out on the exit side - then the pulling stops. At that point, you have to muscle the bit the rest of the way, which is probably less than 1/8" of wood, but takes a lot of strength. The bit rarely breaks through cleanly, which results in a lot of splinters, many of which only get severed at one point around the hole and promptly snap back into place after the bit passes by, thereby blocking the hole for the bit to be pulled back through. 'Twas a lot of very hard work...
Oddly, the hardest work yesterday wasn't in construction, but involved relocating all of the yet-to-be-used lumber into the space from outside, now that we've got some area where we can stack stuff. This gets it out of the weather, and away from prying eyes with a tendency for theft... I think the high difficulty was mainly due to the task coming at the end of 4 hard day's work.
The relocation involved 25 2x12x16', 32 2x4x10', 75 2x4x104-5/8", 175 2x4x8' and about 45 sheets of 3/4" 4x8 decking. The additional advantage of relocating is now we have everything organized where it can be used as needed without having to stack and restack material. I wasn't smart enough to tell the lumber yard the order in which I'd need to use the materials, and more than once we had to move large amounts of material just to get at what we needed next.
I'll upload some pictures soon.
Regards
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 20:43:01
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Some images - finally:
"Empty" space as viewed from the front door. You can see the lights that are being installed and the scaffolding to the right. In the distance were the old lights which have been removed.
"Empty" space as viewed from the Northeast corner. There is a row of shelves adjacent to the right-hand wall in the rear of the space that were abandoned by the previous tenant. I thought they would be great for storage of parts and misc items up in the loft, until we tried to take the shelves apart. Turns out they were what was holding up the wall behind the shelves. Plus they were cheap-o quality - way to wide and deep and way too thin to hold any measurable weight.
"Empty" space as viewed from the Southeast corner. The scaffold we built is visible in this picture, and you can see some of the lights are up, but not yet wired in. In the distance, Tin is hard at work fixing the overhead door.
Here you can see the floor structure is mostly complete and the piping for the dust collection system is installed. The scaffold has become somewhat of the proverbial boat built in the basement. We had the plywood for the decking dropped right in front of the door, making it impossible to get the scaffold out, so we had to lay down and move it around to get our work done...
Here's a view of the first row of the floor decking as it was installed. It's 3/4" thick with tongue and groove edges so the sheets fit nice and tight together. Makes for a very nice floor. At the back of the space, adjacent to the blue pipe is where the shelves were that we had to remove - and where the wall stood as well. We'll have to build a new wood structure to support the standing-seam metal wall that was there. (Cost being deducted from first month's rent...). The wall on the west side of the space only goes up 8 feet. We're going to completely frame out and enclose the space on all sides.
This view shows some of the car path installed. 2x12's with solid 2x6 blocking at the front and back of each section to transfer the vehicle load directly down to the concrete below. I used a similar construction method in the previous space, and 6.9 #1164 sat on that floor for 3+ months during the breaking process with no evidence it was ever there once removed.
Tomorrow, we'll finish installing the decking and start on the framework for the spray booth and loft at the rear of the space.
More pictures to come.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 22:55:32
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More progress this weekend.
The decking was finished yesterday (Saturday), and we started on the walls that will define the equipment room and the finishing room. Unfortunately, there's a lot of crap conduit and a electric meter on the back wall which we must work around.
Here are some of the materials yet to be utilized. The stuff stacked in front of the doors is "inventory" (classy way of saying crap I'm too stingy to toss out...). The doors we got yesterday at Home Depot for a steal. $30 each in the frame. They're crap masonite hollow core doors, but they'll serve just fine in a workshop. One pair will be ganged together to create a pair of doors for the entrance to the finishing room. The other two are for the closets that are in the finishing room that house the dust collector, vacuum and compressor, plus storage.
Today, we finished most of the walls for the equipment and finishing rooms. We've still got some top plates to install, and the sill plates have to be removed where the doors to the closets and the entry to the finishing room are.
The equipment room is about 12' x 16' and is mainly to house the planer, drum sander, drill press and router station. It's not a room as much as an alcove, as there's no door, but "alcove" seems a pretentious term for a workshop.
The finishing room is adjacent to the equipment room and will be about 12' x 12' with two closets at the back each about 4' deep and 6' wide. We've still got to build the header for the doorway.
As noted, the closets will house the noisy equipment - dust collection, vacuum and compressor. They'll be heavily insulated. Still have to build the headers for the doors and remove the sill plates.
A loft will sit atop the equipment/finishing room, about 16' deep x 24' wide. Next weekend we'll build the support beam to span the opening for the equipment room and set the ceiling joists in place. Then we'll deck the loft and construct walls to enclose it. After that, we've got to finish the walls from the front of the equipment/finishing room all the way to the front of the building. Then it's on to electrical - plugs, switches, more lights for the equipment/finishing room, etc.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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alabbasi
USA
1823 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 23:44:27
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That looks fantastic. You have some real skills there Brian.
With best regards
Al
1970 Mercedes Benz 280SL California Coupe
1971 Mercedes Benz 250CE (RHD in the UK)
1971 Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3
1973 Mercedes Benz 280CE 4 speed
1973 Mercedes Benz 350SE 4 speed
1977 Mercedes Benz 350SLC
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SLC 5.0
1981 Mercedes Benz 500SLC
1973 GMC LWB Pickup
2006 Adidas Samba
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:11:44
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Thanks, Al. We think it's coming together rather nicely.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted & gone
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:37:23
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Another update for weekend's work ended March 7, 2010.
On Saturday, we got the balance of the wall top plates installed, plus the headers for the doorways. We got all the joists in place and had blocking about 1/2 way done when we noticed that the front rim joist over the finishing room door didn't line up properly with the beam that spans the equipment area. As it turns out, some shifting occurred as we were heaving the joists into place over the equipment room. They sit on the rear wall, and are attached to the rear rim joist, but hang in joist hangars at the front. To get everything to line up properly, we had to remove the first two joists over the equipment room, as they were slightly long (better than slightly short!). By the time we figured out the cause, we were too beat to trim and reinstall the joists.
Sunday found us reinstalling the two joists, finishing the blocking over the equipment room and adding some bracing to the walls to prevent structural shift (and possible collapse) before we get the walls sheathed. Then it was on to laying the decking to create the loft. 13 sheets of 4x8x3/4" plywood did the trick, but hoisting them nearly 10' in the air proved exhausting.
Here you can see two pictures of the flooring and joists from below - here at the equipment area. You can just see the hangars that cradle the ends of the joists where they meet the beam, which is 3 2x12x12' boards "glued and screwed."
and here at the finishing room.
Here's a couple of views of the loft floor from up in the loft. The space is 16' x 24'. Headroom at the front of the loft is a bit tight at just under 6', but at the rear, it's nearly 7' to the bottom of the roof beams.
In this picture, you can see into the shop adjacent to our space. Next weekend, we'll start the construction of the walls that will frame in our space and seal it off from the neighbors.
Here's a view down into the shop space from the loft. 'Tis a looong way down...
Before we started laying the decking, we made some mechanical attachments of the structure to the framework of the building. One of the disadvantages of using 24" spacing between the studs is that even when you add diagonal bracing, there's still enough give to allow the structure to rack. There's a lot of weight sitting atop the walls with all those 2x12's, and even more with the decking. I'm sure it's easily 1,000#. Attaching the beam at the left-hand corner to the purlin and the right rear of the structure to the purlin in the adjacent building (through the sheeting) provided some stability, but it was still pretty wobbly. Once we got the decking down, that took out one moment of potential motion, twist in the horizontal plane.
The lack of front wall space makes adding any cross bracing impractical and ineffective, so we still have issues with some side-to-side wiggling.
I wanted to put a few sheets of sheathing on the walls to stiffen the structure up, but we've still got wiring to do, and I don't want to start that effort until we're ready to do it from start-to-finish. Hopefully, next weekend, we'll get all of the walls built and raised to define the space, at which time we'll be ready to finish the electrical so we can put the sheathing up.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted & gone
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 17:27:06
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Update:
We've got most of the walls in place - east and west walls atop the loft, and the big walls that run from floor to ceiling through the balance of the space.
The walls on top of the loft only have to go about 6 feet up, so they were no big deal. My original plan for the walls that have to reach nearly 16' at the edge of the loft down to 14' at the front of the building was to "scab" 2 sections of 2x4 together with a block. The walls don't have to support any load except the sheeting, so I figured this was the way to go. Unfortunately, this was a slow and tedious process, as each stud had to be cut individually to a different length and toenail'd into place. It took nearly a full day to do the east wall, and this is the result:
We've still got to come back and put some bracing from the studs across to the purlin of the building for added rigidity. It looks like poop, but as we put the sheathing in place, we can correct any out-of-plumb units.
On the next weekend, we started on the west wall. Tin had a better idea that proved much quicker and more sturdy. We built the west wall in about 1/2 the time of the east wall (and we've still got the aforementioned bracing to do on the east wall) and when complete, it was rock-solid.
I initially thought about doing the wall-atop-wall method but dismissed it as being material wasteful. Actually, when you count up all the 2' long braces we had to cut for the east wall, there's only actually about 2 more 2x4's in the west wall. A very fair trade for a much quicker and more sturdy result which looks like this:
We built the bottom in 8' sections first standing each up as we finished it. Then we built the upper sections 1/2" shy of full height and installed them one-by-one. We then used shims and bolts to attach the upper plate to the carrying beam that runs front-to-back in the building. We came back and added some 2x4 braces that attach to the purlin that runs about 8' feet off the ground, which allowed us to make sure the wall was completely plumb.
We've started running the electrical, which is expensive and time consuming. This was begun Saturday last, and we finished a lot of it by Sunday evening. Being that this installation is in a metal building, we have to use shielded wire, (called BX or armor-clad wiring here in the states). It's a pain to use, as the corrugation of the cover makes it the devil to string through holes in the studs, and it doesn't like to make sharp turns. We've burned through 500 feet so far, and I think another 250 will do the trick...
We've also gone through a seemingly endless supply of switch boxes, each of which must be attached to a stud and have the proper fittings attached to secure the BX. First we bought 35, thinking that was MORE than enough. We've already made one return trip for an additional 15, and I think we still need about 10 more.
The wiring for all of the 220v (standard line voltage here in the US is 110v 60hz) equipment I ran in conduit, partly because we had a bunch of spare conduit and extra 12ga stranded wire, but also to allow easy upgrading of those circuits, should the need arise. Plus, we didn't have to spring for 12/3 (3 conductors, plus insulated ground) BX cable, which very expensive in the small quantity we would need.
The mains are still not attached to the breaker box, which makes life nice and safe while flipping around all the loose ends of the BX. You can see 3 of the 220v conduit runs coming across and into the top of the breaker box. The conduits below the box are existing circuits for other parts of the building:
Here are a few views of the wiring:
You can see another of the 220v conduit circuits in the above picture.
Since I've got Tin's help with everything in the project, the electrical is a bit un-organized at this point. If it were just me, I'd start a single circuit and run it from start to finish. However, we divided our efforts, with me working on getting the conduit installed for the 220v circuits while he prepped the boxes and ran the BX. I've got all the circuits in my head and on drawings, neither of which Tin can decipher. As a result, I've got a lot of checking to do to make sure I've not forgotten something, like how to get power to a particular circuit. It would be a real shame to get the sheathing up only to discover a series of outlets has no power...
One design change I made mid-project was to add a stair landing off the loft. I'd originally planned to attach the stairs directly to the edge of the loft, but the best location for the stairs was at the extreme east edge of the shop, and I really wanted to put the bandsaw right below where the stairs would attach. This wouldn't work, and the simplest solution was to add a 4' x 4' landing above the saw and attach the stairs to that. That also made it more convenient to have the door to the loft swing out instead of in. When I started on the drawings, I figured the east edge of the landing would be attached to the east wall, and I'd just cantilever the west edge of the landing out from the joists that support the loft. Then the "oops" moment when I realized the beam that spans the open space for the equipment room makes it impossible to cantilever any support out for the west edge of the landing. I definitely didn't want a post at the corner of the landing - this would be in the way of the saw.
I came up with an idea, purchased some 4" wide x 1/2" thick steel bar. Cut it and had it welded into a big upside down "L". Here's a picture of it installed:
We ganged together 3 2x4's for the stud that it's attached to, alternating the pieces to create a strong beam. The stud has sole and top plates with bolts through the plates and into the ends of the studs. The plates are screwed to the sole and cap plates, eliminating the need to toenail the stud like the others, and the inherent risk of that type of attachment. The "L" is bolted every 18" through the 4-1/2" wide stud, and every 12" across the top to the landing.
Tin wasn't sure the idea was gonna fly, but once installed, I can stand on the corner of the platform and my 240# frame only causes about 1/8" deflection. We've got some more bracing to do on the big stud to tie it back to the building, and that should shore up the landing rock solid.
Here's a picture of the landing - it's 1 step down from the deck of the loft:
Behind the landing you can see some more of the vacuum system piping. Everything in this new shop is hidden in the walls, ceiling and floors - fewer horizontal surfaces means fewer places for dust to settle which means an easier-to-clean and therefore cleaner shop.
Hopefully this weekend will see the end of the wiring task, all remaining bracing installed and the front wall of the loft constructed.
As the weather warms up here, we're quickly realizing that we are going to have to do something about the insulation (or lack thereof) on the roof. Since we're "mid span" in the building, we don't have any exposure to the east or the west, only to the north. However, even with a mild 75deg F sunny day, my bald head can feel the IR coming off the roof more that 15' above. I was planning on insulating the side walls, but dismissed the idea as both expensive and unnecessary for a non-living space. This is a hobby shop for us, and won't be a conditioned space except when needed. We do plan on adding HVAC to it, both for comfort and also for the badly needed dehumidification that air-conditioning brings. We plan on leaving the thermostat at 90+ when we're not there just to see if that's enough to ward off the moisture without breaking the bank. When there's no insulation on the roof, any leaks that develop are easily tracked and repaired. Once the insulation goes on, all that changes.
We're still discussing and weighing our options.
More later...
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted & gone
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
Edited by - wbrian63 on 03/30/2010 17:31:02 |
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wbrian63
USA
405 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2010 : 09:01:52
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I've been kind of lazy in keeping this thread updated. Here's a little more information
First thing on Saturday (4/12), I took the opportunity to pull all the circuits that were added by the previous tenant next door that is now gone. Talk about hack-job wiring... The main feed was a 50a circuit with 2 #6 and 1 #8 wire run in 1/2 conduit. It was 1 #6 red wire, 1 #6 white wire taped black at the ends, and 1 #8 white wire for the neutral. Ground? fugeddaboutit. I couldn't pull the circuits back out of the conduit. Had to take each section apart at the couplings and work the wires out that way. The wires were so tight in the conduit that in several places the outer skin of the wire, where the gauge, rating, etc info is printed was peeled back and bunched up between the other conductors...
They used bx in all the interior circuits, but most of the connections to junction boxes used emt couplings with electrical tape wrapped around the end of the bx... The sub panel was Square D, a brand I do like, but none of the connectors on top were tight. They actually were the right type of connector for BX, but all they did was knock the blank out of the box, thread the collar onto the connector and stuff the unsheathed bx leads into the box...
That's all gone, and for my trouble, I've got about 50' of misc-length 12/2 bx, about 75' of pretty mangled #6 red and #6 white, and a similar length of #8 white, plus a nice 5 space (10 circuit) Square D lugs load center, complete with breakers.
We also completed bracing the east wall. We've still got to build the wall to the right of the door and tie it into the east wall, but have put that on hold until the door operator arrives later this week.
Adding this bracing made me regret even more not building this wall the same as the west wall, which is a more typical wall-on-wall design. This wall is still plumb and flat across the face, but it just looks sloppy, in my opinion. We started by taking some nice flat 2x4's and marking them 24" on center. Those were attached to the back of the studs at a point even with the upper purlin. This gave us the opportunity to make sure the stud spacing was the same in the middle (more or less) of the wall as it was at the top and bottom. Then we took some short sections of 2x4's and bolted them to the purlin and screwed through the horizontal 2x4 into the bolted blocks. The wall is now rock-solid.
Of course, the fact that the structure looks like a$$ will be covered by the sheathing when it starts going up next weekend (hopefully).
I don't know what kind of structure I'm going to need behind the operator to support it properly. In a "normal" garage, the door track is attached to the inside surface of the wall. In a commercial application, the door track is attached to the back of the door frame, and the "wall" is the exterior of the building, forward of that plane by about 10". The walls to the right and left of the door are more-or-less flush with the front edge of the door track, so I'm going to have to do some custom framing to provide a place to mount the operator.
Here's the door operator we purchased:
http://www.liftmaster.com/consumerwe...px?modelId=834
According to the specs, it will handle doors up to 14' in height, 18' wide or 180 square feet. Our door is 14x10.
Until recently, I hadn't messed with a garage door opener since the early 90's when I installed my trusty Genie screw 1/2hp screw drive at my house. I replaced it recently with one of the new Genie Xcelerator models, which is a very nice unit.
These new quasi-commercial units are a marvel. The wall control has a clock and thermometer in it. You can also activate a motion sensor in the wall control that will turn on the light, which is wirelessly activated - just plug it in anywhere in the garage and go through a simple learning process and it will function with the opener. The opener even has a electric dead-bolt lock that attaches to the track above one of the rollers. When the door closes, the bolt is extended into the channel to block the door being raised, automatically. You can even add laser parking guides to the opener if you need such things...
I think I'm going to adapt this feature to power a couple of lights outside the door. I don't need lighting inside the space, there's a 3-way circuit that allows control of the main lights from adjacent to the man door or the main door, and it's not a garage anyway.
On Sunday, family activities cut in to the schedule, but we still got the wall framed for the front of the loft.
This is from my Good Friday work -
I forgot to get pics of the recently completed piping for the compressed air. There are 7 drops, 3 along the east wall (one for the drill press and 2 for other uses), one inside the finishing room, and 2 outside to the right of the finishing room door - 1 about 8' off the ground for my primary hose reel, and one below it for other uses. There's also one poking up into the loft, but that's a just-in-case branch. All of the piping is sloped about 1/8"/foot so condensate won't collect, and each drop has a provision for a drain valve, which will be a 1/2" ball valve for easy maintenance.
I'm confident of my copper sweating abilities, but I'm still going to cap all but one of the ends and pressure the system with air to make sure there are no leaks.
I was discouraged to discover that 1/2" female copper to 3/8" female ip adapters aren't available. I'll have to settle for a 1/2" x 3/8" galv bushing to attach the quick disconnects. I made sure to get the kind of disconnect where you only have to push the male connector in and it latches. Those kind of connectors are horrible on hose-ends, but wonderful on the wall - no two-handed attachment required.
W. Brian Fogarty
'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted & gone
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII |
Edited by - wbrian63 on 04/18/2010 09:03:25 |
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The build begins
