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MyPoor6.3
USA
131 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2007 : 21:28:37
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I did some digging on the history of this car I bought with the help of some pot luck and research on the world wide web:
I found that it was purchased new by a ship's captain here on the Great Lakes for his wife so that she could drive it to the port where his ship operated out of for visits when he docked.
He died and she kept the car in a garage until she was old enough that she could not take care of herself anymore, and she auctioned off her estate and moved into a home, where she died.
She signed the title to the car off and it was notarized for the auction, but whoever bought the car at the auction never did any work on the car, or anything to finish the paperwork to transfer the title to his name.
So when I bought the car, the original title, signed off by the original owner and notorized was in the glovebox!
It looks like I may be able to have a friend in Ohio get the title into their name and then "sell" it to me so the car will be in my name and have a clear title again.
The friends of the original owner I talked to said that yes, 67,000 miles on the odometer is correct.
Rats, now I will have to find the car a good home instead of parting it out....I am just too sentimental and wishy washy.
300sel6.3 #495 |
Edited by - MyPoor6.3 on 06/03/2007 21:31:05 |
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alabbasi
USA
1686 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 22:57:48
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Why don't you fix it up and drive it? Better still, a Friend of mine has one of these with a Small block chevy 350 and a 700R4 transmission.
You could really build something fun while your restoring the 6.3.
1971 Mercedes Benz 250CE (RHD in the UK)
1973 Mercedes Benz 280SEL 4.5
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9
1997 Mercedes Benz E420 |
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Ron B
Australia
7175 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 03:46:16
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I had a 280 SE back in the 70's and if you spend a little time going over the Car I think you'll find it's a really nice car to drive.Fast,with excellent handling and brakes and an exhaust note to die for.With that mileage I would polish and leave it looking "patinized".You never know,some sentimental soul might just have good home for it.
...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999) |
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Chris Johnson
USA
2663 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 09:55:23
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I was encouraging Ben to not take on a second project a few days ago, but a "partial" project may be in order.
If that is the original paint, it will buff up very nicely. It may not be perfect with dings and scratches, but who cares? Original paint looks great even with some maturity.
I can't do anything with the 6.3 yet because I'm still waiting for parts, so I did some buffing on my most recent 300SE acquisition.
Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
100.012-12-000790
www.300SE.org
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Edited by - Chris Johnson on 06/04/2007 10:13:29 |
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Phil OBrien
USA
750 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 13:17:23
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Chris that looks amazing! How long did it take to buff it out?
Phil |
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glusovich
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:34:40
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And, what did you use?
Brian Glusovich
M-100 member since 2000 |
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Chris Johnson
USA
2663 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 22:34:41
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It took about 20 hours to do the right side of the car.
I use a combination of things, but the key is the 3M Finesse-it II. You can use almost anything to knock off the worst chalk, but it is slow, tedious hand rubbing with the Finesse-it II that really brings out the shine.
You have to rub it firmly, using sparing amounts. You want the towel to not get soaked. A little "dryness" works the best. By that I mean not applying too much to the towel, and applying it to a dry spot on the towel. And don't stop rubbing that spot on the car until nearly all of the material has dried out and there is no residue left on the paint. Keep working on the same section until it looks like it already has fresh wax on it. That's when that spot is done.
Doing this by hand works the best, but on panels like the trunk, hood, center of the roof, etc. you can't really apply enough pressure without risking denting the panel. Then I switch to the electric buffer. The only buffer I have found that I actually like and is a true "random orbit" is the Griot's Garage unit, operated with a speed setting of "3". When using the buffer I have to go over the same area a number of times to get the desired results.
The other thing that is necessary is is a good quality paint on the car, even if it 40 years old and severely chalked out. Cheapo paint is hard to get to shine, let alone keep it shiny for more than a few days.
Mercedes factory paint from the era of our cars is fantastic stuff. So long as the paint isn't actually missing from the car, it always stands up and looks just fantastic. That's why I posted this here. If the paint on Ben's car is original, then I say "buff it out!" It's the fastest way to turn a five hundred dollar car into a four thousand dollar car that I know of.
This is a picture of a car I did a few years ago. It's not a great picture, but it shows the start of the process. This is the car that Mike T saw. Perhaps he'll add a comment.
Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
100.012-12-000790
www.300SE.org
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Edited by - Chris Johnson on 06/04/2007 22:54:07 |
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mtrei
USA
2334 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 01:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Johnson
This is the car that Mike T saw. Perhaps he'll add a comment.
I do remember seeing this car at about that point and being blown away by the results, but I also remember you shying away from a power buffer at the time.
Some people may have seen the faded out 1977 original nickel green paint W123 I was driving at last year's M100 meet in Irvine, just having bought it. On my way back East I stopped at Drew's in NC, and using his Porter Cable buffer I was able to make the paint shine truly like new. It was really quite impressive.
I think with the right tools, Ben's red car could look surprisingly good.
Sometimes I wish the clay bar and the random orbital buffer had already been invented some 25 years ago when I used to earn money by detailing cars! |
Edited by - mtrei on 06/05/2007 01:47:41 |
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wbain
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 21:45:21
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Chris, that's fantastic! I;m going to get some of that 3M stuff and attack my 220S. BTW, where do you find all those 300SE's?
Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor |
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Chris Johnson
USA
2663 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 23:51:18
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Hi Warren,
I'm glad you are going to go after the 220S. I can hardly wait to see the results. 3M makes a ton of car products, so just to be sure you can find the right stuff, the 3M product number is 05928.
The 300SEs come from all over. I have retrieved them from literally all corners of the country, except Hawaii and Alaska (though I actually did find one in Alaska but it was SUCH a rust bucket that there was no realistic way to justify the expense of getting it). There is a LWB sedan in Hawaii that I recently found out about, but haven't gotten any pictures yet. I am sure it is probably a rust bucket too, but it never hurts to look. There was a 300SE coupe over there for sale for years, but it was a rusty turd. I got a note from the owner recently stating that he had finally sold it.
Most cars are located through word-of-mouth, but a close second is just spotting them somewhere. A couple have come from Hemmings ads. The main thing is to chase every rumor.
Up until last year I was living in a small town in Central California. It wasn't planned this way, but the property was diagonally adjacent to the local ice cream shop. It was amazing how many folks would walk over to look at the cars through the fence while chomping on an ice cream cone. Most of them would just ask questions and then go on their way, but occasionally somebody would say "I know where one of those is" or "I have one of those". This provided great fun on summer afternoons running these cars down. They generally turned out to not be 300SEs, or even fin cars. One time it wasn't even a Mercedes! But now and then. . .
In fact the light grey car in the above pictures was one of those lucky finds. It started with a guy walking over from the ice cream shop and saying he had a 220S he needed to sell. He was local, so we went over one day. Not a bad car, but not good enough to buy and dump money into, and not bad enough to part out.
Two weeks later he came back by the house to tell me he had been looking at a piece of heavy equipment for sale, and while there noticed the old guy had a 300SE sedan sitting in the driveway. Once he concluded his business, he drove straight to my place to tell me about the car and give me the phone number. I called, and sure enough! I bought the car immediately. I got the car running and driving a little last summer before the move, but didn't do anything with it until recently because it was just too cold. I think this is going to be a great car.
I'll relate another quick story about a spectacular find. I had gotten word that there might be a LWB sedan for sale in Santa Rosa. The car was supposed to be very rusty and completely worn out, but was a sunroof car. I figured if nothing else it might be a good donor for another neat LWB sunroof sedan I have, but has a crushed roof. I called the owner only to find out that, after sitting at the service garage for two years, he had finally sold it. He had no record of who he had sold it to. Then it occured to me to ask him who the service garage was, since that is where the trasnaction had taken place. I called the owner of the garage and he told me that the guy that bought the car loved the body style, but wanted to dump the worn out mechanicals. So he paid the garage to swap out the entire undercarriage of the car with parts from a 250S. The garage still had all the parts sitting out back, and yes, he would love to sell the stuff. We negotiated a price and scheduled a time to go get it all.
We got there with the trailer and loaded everything up. Before leaving, we asked if he knew of any other 300SEs in the area (service shops know where all the old cars are). He thought for a minute, and said "well, yes". There was a sedan sitting across town at a non-Benz garage. So we hopped in the truck and took off. We found the place, and started looking. Sitting behind a fence pretty well concealed was a faded blue sedan. What?!! It has a beige top! Is this a real two-tone car? Hot damn!
We had already been told that the guy that operated the place was a real PITA, and not to expect much out of him. I went in to talk to him, and, indeed, he was no peach. He said the car did not belong to him, but to an old friend. No, the car was definitely not for sale. All sorts of people had stopped, wanting to buy the car. He didn't have time for the hassles, and, definitely, the owner would never sell the car. And he would not give out a name or phone number for the owner. But he finally allowed that it would be okay to go around and have a quick look at it.
It turns out it really is a factory two-tone car, with tan leather, sunroof, front headrests, factory AC and a three band Becker. I though I had died and gone to heaven, except that I had no lead what-so-ever on the owner. The plates on the car were still Minnesota plates even though the car had been in CA for 15 years. Nothing to go on. So, we left. The guy wouldn't even take my phone number.
This was in July of 2003. In Feb. of 2004 I had occasion to be back in Santa Rosa, and could not resist the temptation to go by the car again. It was still there, thankfully. The operator of the place was no more pleasant than on the previous visit, but did acknowledge that something needed to happen with the car because he had rented out the back half of the shop, and there was no room left for the car. However, he made it quite clear that in his opinion that the owner would never sell the car. At least, not for less than eighty thousand dollars. But he would call the owner and tell him the car had to go, and pass along that I was interest in it. I made sure he understood that there was a "finder's fee" due him if I got the car.
It was about a month of nothing, and then, one day out of the blue, I got a call at work. He didn't announce himself, or even tell me what the subject of the call was. He just started talking about a car. Heck, that could be anybody. Somewhere in the conversation I finally realized we were talking about the car in Santa Rosa, and then I got excited. At this point I thought I was talking to the guy at the garage. After a little more confusion, I finally got it through my head that this was the owner! Now I am truly jumping up and down! If I've got the owner on the phone, that means this car is for sale!
I started worying about what his price was going to be. The car is certainly worthy of fixing and restoring, but what was the price of admission going to be? After the comments about "80K", I was really concerned. The condition of the car came nowhere near it, but I figured I would go ten grand before going a different tack.
We had a couple more conversations before we finally got to the price (neither of us like discussing money). He said that he really couldn't go any less than 2K. 2K! Good Grief it's my lucky day!
I scheduled everything, and left on Sunday to drive to Sacramento to meet and pay the seller. I gave him 3K for it. I would never have been able to have peace in my life again if I took advantage of him by giving him only 2K for the car. This way I was happy, and he was REALLY happy. We drove to Santa Rosa that evening and spent the night. I could hardly sleep the whole night.
I got the car early the next morning. This car is my current restoration project.
Some early photos and documentation:
http://www.300se.org/112014-12-002641/Photos_Frame_002641.htm
Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
100.012-12-000790
www.300SE.org
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Ron B
Australia
7175 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 06:38:33
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Yes,Chris definately a Diehard..
Heres something that is for sale about 100 mters from here.It looks like a 280 SE 3.5 has the right badges,bonnet grille etc but a chassis number #112021002999
I know the car well but it's all shiney paint,and just like an exwife it's all shiny on top and [corruption } underneath.
...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999) |
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alabbasi
USA
1686 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 09:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron B
I know the car well but it's all shiney paint,and just like an exwife it's all shiny on top and [corruption } underneath.
From a single guy's perspective, that's bloody funny.
1971 Mercedes Benz 250CE (RHD in the UK)
1973 Mercedes Benz 280SEL 4.5
1979 Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9
1997 Mercedes Benz E420 |
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wbain
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 10:13:27
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Thanks for that great story Chris. I went over the pictures and other info in the link. You've given me valuable info on documentation so when I get to rebuilding my 220S, I'll be prepared. I have some rust I need to sand down and then prime and paint the affected areas.
I've signed up with the local Community College for an Engine Block Service course. I'll be refurbishing the 220Sb's block, an M180 4 main bearing engine, and using the machine shop there. The man who teaches the course drag races his almost AA dragster. It's got a HEMI and I'll have to take some pics and send them to you.
http://www.nvcc.edu/manassas/auto/index.htm
http://www.nvcc.edu/home/gphares/
http://www.nvcc.edu/depts/academic/coursecont/summaries/aut113.htm
These guys know I'm a Mercedes man and the kids in the classes all know of me because of the 2002 black Crown Vic Police Interceptor I drive.
I recently had a short discussion with a man who was doing some block work on a Pursche 944 Turbo block. I asked him if he was going to treat the bores, assuming the ALUSIL block material. He said it was an Urban Legend and I replied that my MB manual for the M116 block in my 420SEL has the treatment procedures for etching the cylinder walls. These procedures are unnessary on the M189 with cast iron liners of course, or for the M103 block or the M180 block. Whew, that's alot of numbers to remember, or the M100 block we all know and love.
Best
Warren
Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor |
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wbain
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 10:17:23
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Chris, one more thing. Would you please be so kind as to take some pics of the wooden window sils, and put a ruler next to them, because I would like to make some and put them on my 220S. I need the shapes and underside views as well, when you can get to it, obviously. I remember them from the 300SE(L), W112.015, my dad had for a short time. What a fantastic car.
Thanks wb
Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor |
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Dan Smith
USA
1510 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 10:38:21
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| Chris, great restoration on that paint and a great story about your Indiana Jones type find. |
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Chris Johnson
USA
2663 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 13:26:08
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Warren, I am jealous.
When I was in Carson City we a had a terrific community college in town, and I took advantage of it repeatedly. The auto, welding, and machine shops were a favorite haunt.
California, on the other hand, had virtually completely dropped the trade skills classes. If you weren't into the high tech stuff or the "liberal" arts stuff, you weren't going to get much.
Where I am currently at in Colorado classes aren't even an option.
As I mentioned in the last post, the two-tone 300SE is my current restotarion project. The biggest challenge has been getting the cylinders properly reconditioned, and that is related to obtaining parts and to finding an acceptable machine shop to do the work. There is no such thing as a factory over-size piston for these engines. It was the factory's intention that you either replace the short block, or install new sleeves when the cylinder bores went out of spec. Replacing the short block is an unacceptable solution as far as I am concerned, and replacing the sleeves is neither an easy or cheap task either though it is usually the prefered approach. It has gotten to the point where finding a competent person to do that is the greatest challenge of all.
I found what I hoped was a competent shop to start the initial eval of the engine block, and, on average, the bores were about four thousandths over spec. Time for new liners. The shop owner suggested a few alternatives, the first of which was having oversized forged pistons made and boring the sleeves (an idea I really don't like). The other was to have the sleeves "Nikosil"ed and honed back to size. Well, that's an idea I had never considered! Part of the reason I really liked that idea was that it would create a surface in the bores that would last a lot longer then the iron sleeves would. Yeah, let's look into that.
The shop owner said that, while there are lots of shops around the country that did this kind of work, there were only two that he knew would do it properly. And the preferred shop was in Pennsylvania. Fine. He boxed up the block and shipped it to PA. Six weeks later we got the word back that the shop wouldn't do my block because they were concerned about being able to apply the plating properly at the top of the bores because of the angled deck. Their concern was that the plating would start to chip off at that area. Their technique was designed to apply an even plating when the height of the bore was uniform around its circumference, and the M189 bore is anything but uniform.
Understanding what they knew they could do properly, and what they couldn't, increased my confidence in the integrity of the plating shop but it didn't solve my particular problem!
(Ultimately, I pulled everything from the machine shop. They screwed up bad when removing a number of broken side cover bolts, screwed up multiple sets of king pin bushings, and let the engine block from my 300b sit for over a year without even getting it hot-tanked yet, let alone measure the cylinder bores.)
Back to the point. While Alusil doesn't directly apply to our old engines, Nikosil can. Years ago I had to have a Sunbeam Alpine block sleeved to bring it back to a size for which pistons were available. I never liked that idea, if for no other reason that the altered heat transfer rate. But applying a Nikosil coating to bring a bore back down to size sounds very attractive. Not only is the heat transfer rate improved over what is possible with a sleeve, but it is an extremely durable surface. Since it seems that the bores wear faster than the pistons in our old Benz engines, this could really put a lot of life into a rebuilt engine!
Regarding the wood, I don't have any here that is out of a car so pictures in the near future aren't possible. I have to believe it would make more sense to obtain the wood from an existing car and have it refinished than to try to create it (baring the fact that half the fun just might be going through the process of creating it).
I'll keep this in mind the next time I remove the wood from a car though.
Ron, I know of a 300SE coupe just like that one in the photo in the LA area. It's even red like that one. I considered buying it and then selling off the 3.5 parts to cover the expense. I decided that it was probably better left where it was at because the guy wanted too much money for it, it was at the back of the lot behind at least twenty other cars, and it was his dogs' favorite potty spot.
Any chance you've got the full VIN for it?
Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
100.012-12-000790
www.300SE.org
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Edited by - Chris Johnson on 06/12/2007 13:30:50 |
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Romantic history of "parts" car discovered....
